crowdSPRING

Ross · 4-Dec-08, 10:52pm

We have talked as a community about standards of conduct appropriate in this community (this version is for creatives, we will be working on a version for buyers too).

We've all been frustrated with instances of concept copying, rude behavior in public and private communications, and other inappropriate conduct. Our team spent the last few weeks putting together DRAFT standards of conduct for discussion by the entire community. We want your input!

Please suggest additions, changes, etc. We will keep this thread open for 10 days (until December 14) and will then review input from all, finalize the standards of conduct, and publish them on crowdSPRING.

We will provide each new creative with a copy of these standards when they register and will make the standards accessible at all times by everyone.

We are serious about enforcing these standards. To build a world-class community, we must all come together as a community and respect each other and people who visit this community. We have already removed five users from working on crowdSPRING. We were not happy to do that - but violations of our user agreement required us to act in order to protect he community.

So - this is your chance to help us define what conduct is or is not appropriate in our community. Please leave your constructive comments, and invite your friends on crowdSPRING to provide their comments too. We hope to have a good discussion about these standards. They will affect all of you and this is your chance to work with us to shape them.

Ross

DRAFT Standards of Conduct for Creatives

When working on crowdSPRING, a creative must at all times respect the profession, their colleagues, buyers/clients, and the general public. These standards of conduct were developed in collaboration with the crowdSPRING community and this community expects every creative on crowdSPRING to follow it.

1. Responsibility to clients/buyers

1.1 A creative working on crowdSPRING must understand the client/buyer's requirements and acceptable design standards and do their very best at all times to comply with both.

1.2 If a creative working on crowdSPRING works on multiple projects, they must avoid conflicts of interest, such as submitting the same or similar designs simultaneously to multiple projects.

1.3 A creative working on crowdSPRING must not misuse public comment tools (such as comments in projects and the ACTIVITY tab) to undermine the reputation of a client/buyer.

2. Responsibility to other creatives and the public

2.1 A creative working on crowdSPRING must support fair and open competition in all projects.

2.2 A creative working on crowdSPRING must never attempt, directly or indirectly, to compete with another creative by wrongful means. This community does not tolerate concept copying, insulting or negative communications, or otherwise unprofessional behavior.

2.3 A creative working on crowdSPRING must, at all times, whether in private or public communications, be professional and constructive when commenting on the work of another creative and must never denigrate the work or reputation of another creative. This community does not tolerate rude behavior or inappropriate comments.

2.4 A creative working on crowdSPRING must not accept instructions from clients if those instructions ask you to violate this code of conduct or another persons's intellectual property rights (such as a request that you copy the elements of a design submitted by another creative).

2.5 A creative working on crowdSPRING must not claim sole credit for a design which includes elements designed by other creatives. A creative must always disclose and identify his or her specific contribution to the design and must always disclose whether portions of the design use elements created by someone else.

2.6 A creative working on crowdSPRING must communicate truthfully in all situations and at all times.

Mattiu · 5-Dec-08, 2:10am

I have communicated in Private with buyers to get a better handle/direction on where to take my design. Most of the time they contact me. I prefer to talk about ideas that have yet to be put to the artboard in private because Throwing out an idea that is not on the virtual paper so to speak, in public is foolish, because anyone that can read can easily replicate it. So this is where the code of conduct comes into effect.

When it comes to some competitions where the brief specifically states certain elements you have to be a little more flexible in terms of design similarities. The copy cat designs should cover designs you have come up with at an earlier date that get recycled in contests down the track.

Rude comments: I just entered a contest where at the end many of the designers attacked the winning design with one of the attackers trying to defend his comments with the free speech argument. Regardless of wether the design is good or not the buyer chose it, so deal with it and if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

I just read another thread before this one on recycling your old designs and i want to give my opinion on it while im here. I recently won a contest that consisted of a speech bubble with integrated face i was really proud of this design and submitted it, but it didn't win the first time and the buyer liked it but ended up choosing something else. Now this is probably one of cleverest designs to date by me IMO. Now! if i didn't resubmit it just how long do you think it would have lasted. Not long at all. If you do something cool im all for submitting it again, its my work and if its a really unique idea it will get stolen. With that said i do usally tell the contest holder if im resubmitting something old and if your going to do this dont submit it at the same time in two different contests as stated in related thread becuase this really is unfair on the contest holder(s).

I suggested on a previous freelance site that a marketplace was set up to sell our old designs. The plus side is we might get some extra pocket money and exposure and if integrated into the portfolio, allows CS to make extra use of our files that are basically taking up storage space.

My three cents worth.

jmill · 5-Dec-08, 4:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattiu

Rude comments: I just entered a contest where at the end many of the designers attacked the winning design with one of the attackers trying to defend his comments with the free speech argument. Regardless of wether the design is good or not the buyer chose it, so deal with it and if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

I totally and 100% think it's horrible as a creative, to talk trash about a winner. I saw a lot of people doing this on one project I was in as well, and it made me angry. Even if the winner copied, even if they said something bad, and even if you think they won unfairly, there are ways to deal with it professionally. Like the "Report Violation" button, or a simple PM to the buyer and/or the creative about your concerns.

Anytime I've ever seen a possible concept copy, I just PM the creative and work it out that way. I've never had anyone have a problem with that, so that's what I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattiu

I just read another thread before this one on recycling your old designs and i want to give my opinion on it while im here. I recently won a contest that consisted of a speech bubble with integrated face i was really proud of this design and submitted it, but it didn't win the first time and the buyer liked it but ended up choosing something else. Now this is probably one of cleverest designs to date by me IMO. Now! if i didn't resubmit it just how long do you think it would have lasted. Not long at all. If you do something cool im all for submitting it again, its my work and if its a really unique idea it will get stolen. With that said i do usally tell the contest holder if im resubmitting something old and if your going to do this dont submit it at the same time in two different contests as stated in related thread becuase this really is unfair on the contest holder(s).

I suggested on a previous freelance site that a marketplace was set up to sell our old designs. The plus side is we might get some extra pocket money and exposure and if integrated into the portfolio, allows CS to make extra use of our files that are basically taking up storage space.

My three cents worth.

Recycling designs is a great idea if it works, and yes I think it's bad to submit the same thing to multiple active projects. Plus you did already put it out there once, so the odds of it being copied are higher. I say take every chance you have to resubmit.

The idea of selling on here was something I tossed around, and I still think it's a cool idea.
----------------------------
Now there's this whole thing about concept copying that is tough to swallow. I don't like it, but there are so many specific things to not do. It's almost like you have to make a judgment call on anything similar. For instance, if a buyer wants you to add an orange to the word "Orange." Where do you think everyone would put it? Most likely in the "O." so does that mean it's concept copying if a bunch of people do that? In this case I'd say no, as long as the oranges looked different. I mean if the buyer requests something that's a no-brainer, I don't see the problem as long as the designs don't have the same text, or the same looking orange.

I believe it's up to the community to alert any creative that they may be copying an already existing design. Even though it may very well be accidental, you know what they say, "If you though of it, there are 1,000 people who had the same idea." This is what I say: "I don't know if you know this, but your design <link here> looks very similar to this design <link here>." Creatives are very nice and responsive if you do things like this. Don't just say, "Hey you're concept copying!"

Anyway, I like all the rules so far, so keep up the good work cS!
J

fredK · 5-Dec-08, 4:17am

@Ross -- Draft looks good imho, at first glance. Will need to look more closely at it before saying anything more. Just one question: any thoughts on something similar aimed at buyers -- i.e "don't actively encourage concept or design copying", "don't openly suggest that creatives should incorporate stuff from other creatives' entries unless you've bought the rights for said entries", you know ... stuff like that? Just a thought.

Cheers,
Fred
------------
New site: http://www.inkpattern.com/
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/incre

Emil2000 · 5-Dec-08, 4:47am

I'd like a clarification on the use of public domain fonts. Do I have to disclaim that I didin't create the font, or shoud that just be common knowledge? If you have to discalim fonts noone here should be checking the "I created this all by myself" box, as none of us has created a font, at least that I'm aware of.As stated earlir in other threads I'm for a limit of 5 entries per project per crearive, with additional entries granted if the buyer requests a change, or an entry is withdrawn. flooding would become a non-issue. I also agree with creatives not being able to see each others work which will eliminate the concept copiny issue. I might not be the best designer around here, or have been here as long as some others, but I have had the misfortune of having a buyer ask me to make a minor change to a design, and before I could get it done there were multiple entries posted containing that specific design element. Perhahs the easy way out is to have entry coments visable to only the creative and buyer.
Overall I'm happy with the crowdSpring community, but as in any community there are people who put personal gain above ethics. We as a community have to figure out a way to weed out these people,

Mattiu · 5-Dec-08, 5:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emil2000

I'd like a clarification on the use of public domain fonts. Do I have to disclaim that I didin't create the font, or shoud that just be common knowledge? If you have to discalim fonts noone here should be checking the "I created this all by myself" box, as none of us has created a font,

There is a difference between public domain fonts and purchased fonts. Purchased fonts do not require declaration because you own them, you own a licence to use them but you cant redestribute when sending jobs off. Eg embeding them in PDF's e.t.c are usally not wanted by the different foundrys and they ask that you flatten them out.

A public domain font should be declared depending on what the usage clauses are. Many will let you use free fonts with the understanding that you do not use for commerical use and submitting work for crowdspring would probably be considered commercial as your profiting. Its always up to the individual to find out about the usage rights before the use of any free fonts and not just download them and hope for the best. So id say this needs to stay in because it is not just for the protection of the creative but the buyer as well

angrypuppy · 5-Dec-08, 5:33am

I havent seen much, if any arguing in the contests. It does come with the territory tho. I think most of the time it is the contest holders fault. So many of them do treat the contest like there is not a real person on the other side. Ignoring entries, no feedback, etc.I know that comes with the territory too. You have to have a thick skin in a way. But i am talking about common courtesy and that seems to get lost in all aspects of a contest, on both sides of the spectrum. Maybe its just the way it is, but stealing is a problem and it is a problem on each and every design site.

The options before submitting a design are there for a reason, but people continue to post stuff that are from Go Media, or a design from someone else in another contest or site and try to call it their own.

There are tons of free vectors you CAN use and you CAN sell them, But you really should try and put a special spin to them, to make them original.Why would a buyer want to buy what they can get for free? Im rambling and going all over the place, but it is easier than trying to find a topic for each rant!

I have no problem with someone getting called out in a contest. It makes us aware for future contests so that we can watch that person. Nothing worse than losing to someone who steals or resells the same design over and over.

As for improvements. I think the site is running well. The team has responded to each and every email i have ever sent. Worked on every bug or problem i have ever submitted. They get on a contest that seems like it may float off in to internet space. What more can you ask for?

Thats what keeps a site together and a happy community.

$%&# 'em all and let Crowd Spring sort em out! lol

Mattiu · 5-Dec-08, 5:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emil2000

I'm for a limit of 5 entries per project per crearive, with additional entries granted if the buyer requests a change, or an entry is withdrawn. flooding would become a non-issue. I also agree with creatives not being able to see each others work which will eliminate the concept copiny issue.

In a perfect design world this would work. But depending on the buyer you are dealing with, there wants and needs can be very vauge and if they are very particular you might use up your 5 submissions with tweaks for only one design.

If we could just submit one decent design and be golden it would be ideal but it doesnt work like that thou i wsih it would and what is going to stop people from waiting till all submissions are in and submit at the last minute?

IMO submit as many designs as you like just dont have them all the same design with only minor changes unless your asked to by the buyer and as Jmill said: if someone copies you contact them and enquire about it or report it too ross or one of the other staff members.

Most people really are happy to comply and ill quote Jmill one more time because hes exactly right dont think that just because you designed something in a contest that it hasen't been done elsewhere outside of CS because i have thought exactly as you do and have been proven wrong twice this year that as clever as we all like to believe we are, we are not alone usually in our cleverness. If everyone and im including myself just use a bit of common sense and respect for each other it would solve a lot of problems found on freelance sites.

Mattiu · 5-Dec-08, 5:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by angrypuppy

I have no problem with someone getting called out in a contest. It makes us aware for future contests so that we can watch that person. Nothing worse than losing to someone who steals or resells the same design over and over.

And thats exactly the 99 design mindset with arguments over © aired out in public. I have been called out, ive seen Entz called out, intrepid guppy and the list goes on and no disrespect to you puppy but i have seen you abuse contest holders over no feedback. Accusations without proof and name calling solves nothing. *shrugs

Mattiu · 5-Dec-08, 9:41am

Just to reiterate the point above:
http://www.crowdspring.com/projects/...sential_church

The brief was quite specific so i came up with something different that no one had done and what do you know two entrys with TV arials. Not 1 hour ago i see the heart i did in the contest posted at another freelance site while the site was busy having a nap. Now I could get bent out of of shape but whats the point and what purpose would it serve me or them to publicly humiliate them for the sake of everyone else knowing they copied me. I think if i was that concerned the best approach like i said would be too contact them via PM and if that fails id e-mail the staff and they can handle. I know that's how i would like someone too approach me if they thought i had infringed on there intellectual property.

4-Dec-08, 10:52pm	#1
Ross (Woak) Join Date: Mar-08 Posts: 2,682	We have talked as a community about standards of conduct appropriate in this community (this version is for creatives, we will be working on a version for buyers too). We've all been frustrated with instances of concept copying, rude behavior in public and private communications, and other inappropriate conduct. Our team spent the last few weeks putting together DRAFT standards of conduct for discussion by the entire community. We want your input! Please suggest additions, changes, etc. We will keep this thread open for 10 days (until December 14) and will then review input from all, finalize the standards of conduct, and publish them on crowdSPRING. We will provide each new creative with a copy of these standards when they register and will make the standards accessible at all times by everyone. We are serious about enforcing these standards. To build a world-class community, we must all come together as a community and respect each other and people who visit this community. We have already removed five users from working on crowdSPRING. We were not happy to do that - but violations of our user agreement required us to act in order to protect he community. So - this is your chance to help us define what conduct is or is not appropriate in our community. Please leave your constructive comments, and invite your friends on crowdSPRING to provide their comments too. We hope to have a good discussion about these standards. They will affect all of you and this is your chance to work with us to shape them. Ross DRAFT Standards of Conduct for Creatives When working on crowdSPRING, a creative must at all times respect the profession, their colleagues, buyers/clients, and the general public. These standards of conduct were developed in collaboration with the crowdSPRING community and this community expects *every* creative on crowdSPRING to follow it. 1. Responsibility to clients/buyers 1.1 A creative working on crowdSPRING must understand the client/buyer's requirements and acceptable design standards and do their very best at all times to comply with both. 1.2 If a creative working on crowdSPRING works on multiple projects, they must avoid conflicts of interest, such as submitting the same or similar designs simultaneously to multiple projects. 1.3 A creative working on crowdSPRING must not misuse public comment tools (such as comments in projects and the ACTIVITY tab) to undermine the reputation of a client/buyer. 2. Responsibility to other creatives and the public 2.1 A creative working on crowdSPRING must support fair and open competition in all projects. 2.2 A creative working on crowdSPRING must never attempt, directly or indirectly, to compete with another creative by wrongful means. This community does not tolerate concept copying, insulting or negative communications, or otherwise unprofessional behavior. 2.3 A creative working on crowdSPRING must, at all times, whether in private or public communications, be professional and constructive when commenting on the work of another creative and must never denigrate the work or reputation of another creative. This community does not tolerate rude behavior or inappropriate comments. 2.4 A creative working on crowdSPRING must not accept instructions from clients if those instructions ask you to violate this code of conduct or another persons's intellectual property rights (such as a request that you copy the elements of a design submitted by another creative). 2.5 A creative working on crowdSPRING must not claim sole credit for a design which includes elements designed by other creatives. A creative must always disclose and identify his or her specific contribution to the design and must always disclose whether portions of the design use elements created by someone else. 2.6 A creative working on crowdSPRING must communicate truthfully in all situations and at all times. __________________ Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosskimbarovsky/ crowdSPRING Blog: http://blog.crowdspring.com/ My Blog: http://www.rosskimbarovsky.com/

5-Dec-08, 2:10am	#2
Mattiu cS Member Join Date: Aug-08 Posts: 69	I have communicated in Private with buyers to get a better handle/direction on where to take my design. Most of the time they contact me. I prefer to talk about ideas that have yet to be put to the artboard in private because Throwing out an idea that is not on the virtual paper so to speak, in public is foolish, because anyone that can read can easily replicate it. So this is where the code of conduct comes into effect. When it comes to some competitions where the brief specifically states certain elements you have to be a little more flexible in terms of design similarities. The copy cat designs should cover designs you have come up with at an earlier date that get recycled in contests down the track. Rude comments: I just entered a contest where at the end many of the designers attacked the winning design with one of the attackers trying to defend his comments with the free speech argument. Regardless of wether the design is good or not the buyer chose it, so deal with it and if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. I just read another thread before this one on recycling your old designs and i want to give my opinion on it while im here. I recently won a contest that consisted of a speech bubble with integrated face i was really proud of this design and submitted it, but it didn't win the first time and the buyer liked it but ended up choosing something else. Now this is probably one of cleverest designs to date by me IMO. Now! if i didn't resubmit it just how long do you think it would have lasted. Not long at all. If you do something cool im all for submitting it again, its my work and if its a really unique idea it will get stolen. With that said i do usally tell the contest holder if im resubmitting something old and if your going to do this dont submit it at the same time in two different contests as stated in related thread becuase this really is unfair on the contest holder(s). I suggested on a previous freelance site that a marketplace was set up to sell our old designs. The plus side is we might get some extra pocket money and exposure and if integrated into the portfolio, allows CS to make extra use of our files that are basically taking up storage space. My three cents worth. Last edited by Mattiu; 5-Dec-08 at 2:18am..

5-Dec-08, 5:33am	#7
angrypuppy cS Member Join Date: Mar-08 Posts: 33	I havent seen much, if any arguing in the contests. It does come with the territory tho. I think most of the time it is the contest holders fault. So many of them do treat the contest like there is not a real person on the other side. Ignoring entries, no feedback, etc.I know that comes with the territory too. You have to have a thick skin in a way. But i am talking about common courtesy and that seems to get lost in all aspects of a contest, on both sides of the spectrum. Maybe its just the way it is, but stealing is a problem and it is a problem on each and every design site. The options before submitting a design are there for a reason, but people continue to post stuff that are from Go Media, or a design from someone else in another contest or site and try to call it their own. There are tons of free vectors you CAN use and you CAN sell them, But you really should try and put a special spin to them, to make them original.Why would a buyer want to buy what they can get for free? Im rambling and going all over the place, but it is easier than trying to find a topic for each rant! I have no problem with someone getting called out in a contest. It makes us aware for future contests so that we can watch that person. Nothing worse than losing to someone who steals or resells the same design over and over. As for improvements. I think the site is running well. The team has responded to each and every email i have ever sent. Worked on every bug or problem i have ever submitted. They get on a contest that seems like it may float off in to internet space. What more can you ask for? Thats what keeps a site together and a happy community. $%&# 'em all and let Crowd Spring sort em out! lol Last edited by angrypuppy; 5-Dec-08 at 5:39am.. Reason: add

5-Dec-08, 4:17am	#4
fredK cS Senior Member Join Date: Mar-08 Posts: 307	@Ross -- Draft looks good imho, at first glance. Will need to look more closely at it before saying anything more. Just one question: any thoughts on something similar aimed at buyers -- i.e "don't actively encourage concept or design copying", "don't openly suggest that creatives should incorporate stuff from other creatives' entries unless you've bought the rights for said entries", you know ... stuff like that? Just a thought. Cheers, Fred ------------ New site: http://www.inkpattern.com/ Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/incre

5-Dec-08, 4:47am	#5
Emil2000 cS Member Join Date: Oct-08 Posts: 36	I'd like a clarification on the use of public domain fonts. Do I have to disclaim that I didin't create the font, or shoud that just be common knowledge? If you have to discalim fonts noone here should be checking the "I created this all by myself" box, as none of us has created a font, at least that I'm aware of.As stated earlir in other threads I'm for a limit of 5 entries per project per crearive, with additional entries granted if the buyer requests a change, or an entry is withdrawn. flooding would become a non-issue. I also agree with creatives not being able to see each others work which will eliminate the concept copiny issue. I might not be the best designer around here, or have been here as long as some others, but I have had the misfortune of having a buyer ask me to make a minor change to a design, and before I could get it done there were multiple entries posted containing that specific design element. Perhahs the easy way out is to have entry coments visable to only the creative and buyer. Overall I'm happy with the crowdSpring community, but as in any community there are people who put personal gain above ethics. We as a community have to figure out a way to weed out these people,

5-Dec-08, 9:41am	#10
Mattiu cS Member Join Date: Aug-08 Posts: 69	Just to reiterate the point above: http://www.crowdspring.com/projects/...sential_church The brief was quite specific so i came up with something different that no one had done and what do you know two entrys with TV arials. Not 1 hour ago i see the heart i did in the contest posted at another freelance site while the site was busy having a nap. Now I could get bent out of of shape but whats the point and what purpose would it serve me or them to publicly humiliate them for the sake of everyone else knowing they copied me. I think if i was that concerned the best approach like i said would be too contact them via PM and if that fails id e-mail the staff and they can handle. I know that's how i would like someone too approach me if they thought i had infringed on there intellectual property.